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I began every class with the same line: "I'm going to share some of my industry secrets with you all, but there's a catch."
After building and growing a pretty successful hockey podcast, Dropping the Gloves, I had certainly learned some lessons the hard way. My co-host, former NHL-er John Scott, and I were able to turn a small side project into a profitable business and we had a blast doing it. You can read more about my time with Dropping the Gloves here.
Somewhere along the way, I was approached by SUNY Adirondack about teaching a podcast course a few times a year for their Continuing Education program. I was thrilled at the opportunity.
We named the course, “How to Build & Grow Your Podcast: Six Lessons Learned on the Way to Six Figures.” I was more than happy to help others who wanted to grow their own shows and were looking for some guidance.
So, what was the catch?
I simply told the students in the course that I wasn't going to teach them anything that they could find with a simple Google search. We wouldn't be covering surface-level topics like which microphone to buy (seriously, I don't know) or which podcast platform was better than others (they're all basically the same).
Instead, I would be sharing real, actionable insights that John and I learned along the way of growing a show that was generating more than 100,000 downloads per month.
Without further ado:
1. Find Your Unique Angle
The podcast space is crowded. Very crowded. And that's an understatement.
So, how do you cut through the noise and get your show to stand out? You might assume that it's enough to have a high-quality show that people love, but the truth is that this probably isn't enough. There are a lot of quality shows out there.
Take our show, for example. Dropping the Gloves was one of dozens and dozens of hockey podcasts. We carved out a niche for our show by leaning into what made us unique:
- Hosted by a Retired NHL Player – we certainly weren't the only show that was hosted by a retired player. But there weren't that many, which immediately gave us a leg-up on most of the other shows out there. Dropping the Gloves provided insights and stories that could only be provided by someone who had lived it.
- 3 Episodes Per Week – Putting out 3 episodes a week for so many years was a ton of work, but it allowed us to stay current and talk about major trades, signings, injuries, fights, goals, and everything else basically in real time. The news was always fresh. Plus, unlike some of the shows that recorded once per week, we didn't have to spend any time catching up or shooting the breeze. Listeners said they appreciated that.
- Family-Friendly – John gets all the credit for this one. We kept the show family-friendly by keeping the topics away from anything inappropriate for the kids and kept the language clean (no effin' and jeffin' as John liked to say). We even told our guests the same thing. There were so many times that listeners reached out to say how much they appreciated that they could listen to the show in the car on the way to hockey practice with their kids.
So yes, you need to build a high-quality show in order to get people to listen. But if you want them to remember you, find out what makes your show unique and lean into it.
Action Item: Ask yourself the question, "What are they getting from our show that they aren't getting anywhere else?" There's your angle. Start there.
2. Be Consistent
This one sounds obvious. And maybe it is.
But you've got to be consistent. Prove to your self that you're going to put the work in. Prove to your audience that your show is worth getting invested in. Prove to potential sponsors that you're not going anywhere.
This can include sticking to a specific schedule. For example, you could release episodes at the 7am every Friday morning so that your listeners start to plan their Friday commute around your show. It builds credibility and sticking power. Predictability can go a long way.
And this includes sticking with it even when you hit those lulls and dips. When the show stops being new and exciting.
There's a great quote from Ira Glass that I put up on my screen every time I taught the class:
“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners. I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be. It has potential. But your taste -- your taste is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you.
A lot of people never get past this phase. They quit. Most people I know who do interesting creative work went through years of this. Our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you’re just getting started or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it’s normal, and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline, so that every week, you will finish one project. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap and your work will be as good as your ambitions. It’s gonna take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.” – Ira Glass
By the way, consistency doesn't have to mean growth. In this 2-year stretch, our downloads consistently hovered around 100,000 per month. And yet, during that time, our revenue doubled because our brand recognition grew and we could prove ROI to sponsors.
That's the power of retention!
Action Item: Stick with it. Commit to a time frame and don't budget on it. 6 months. A year. And remember, success isn't linear. You will have bumps along the way. Expect them. Embrace them. And keep going.
3. Listen To Your Audience
If you've seen Kitchen Nightmares, then you've heard Gordon Ramsay say something like, "Customers don't tell you when they don't like the food. They just don't come back!"
The same is true with creative endeavors like podcasts. You'll probably get more feedback indirectly from your listeners than directly.
What do I mean by that?
It would be great if your listeners always said, "I love your show because of this," or, "I stopped listening because of that." And sometimes, they will.
But most of the time, they won't. It's up to you to listen to your audience and analyze their behavior to figure out what they're telling you. It's up to you what to do with that information.
And remember, even though it's your podcast and they're the listeners, your relationship is not one-way. It's omnidirectional—are you listening?
Action Item: Analyze your data and look for trends:
- Which episodes get the MOST listens?
- Which episodes get the LEAST listens?
- How do topic, title, release date, etc. impact downloads?
- What type of content gets the most engagement on social media?
- What devices are they listening on?
👆This is your audience speaking to you!
4. Monetization Comes in Many Forms
Podcast advertisers spent more than $2M billion in 2024.
If your show builds an audience, there's money to be made.
Here are the 4 ways in which podcasters typically get paid:
Flat Fee
This is the best one: an agreement with a brand that has a fix term and length. For example, you can have a sponsorship that runs for 6 months with a monthly payout of $1,000 in exchange for 1 ad and 2 social posts per week.
In the beginning, you'll obviously need to be flexible with pricing and deliverables, but as your show grows, so does your ability to negotiate more favorable deals.
CPM
CPM means cost per 1,000 downloads. This is typically paid out on a monthly basis.
I've seen CPMs range from $5 to $50, but typically you can find rates in the $20-$25 range.
So, if you have a $25 CPM with a brand or network and your show generates $10,000 listens in a month, you can expect your payout to be about $250.
While not as safe as a flat fee, this format is predictable since you have a sense of what your payout will typically be. The CPM structure also incentives you to release more and better episodes in order to increase your monthly payout.
Affiliate
This one will especially leverage your social media (yes, your show should have its own pages!) Brands will give promo codes to share or tracking URLs so they can measure how many sales/sign-ups/downloads/etc they can attribute to your show.
For example, a sports betting company may give you a promo code like, "ShowName15" and you get a $10 kickback every time someone uses your code to get 15% off to sign up for an account. You'd promote the code on your show and social channels.
This is the easiest type of deal to get, especially for a new show. But of course, it's not ideal if you are trying to build steady, predictable revenue.
Collaborations
There are lots of small brands that would love to collaborate with you but don't have any room for a marketing budget. Be open to handshake deals and collaboration with brands like these, especially in the beginning.
For example, maybe if you start a podcast about pickleball, see if a smaller brand would send you a hat or a t-shirt in exchange for a shoutout on your show. You'll be building relationships in your niche and supporting someone with the same passions as you. And who doesn't love free swag?
Action Item: Find the biggest and best shows in your space, keep track of who’s advertising there, and reach out to them. I've found that sending messages on LinkedIn is a great way to get a foot in the door. Just search the company employee list and filter for word like "marketing," "advertising," "partnerships," "brand," and "media." You'd be surprised at what could happen.
5. Own Your Data
If you remember only one thing from this blog, let this be it.
Over the course of 7 years with Dropping the Gloves, we switched hosting platforms 4 times: from BuzzSprout to Simplecast to Libsyn to Acast.
These platforms make it really easy to switch all of your content from one to another. It's all done seamlessly and your listeners would never know. It's pretty impressive.
What they don't do, however, is carry data over from one platform to another. All the reporting on downloads, devices, locations, etc. is lost and started anew when you switch.
So, I really recommend that you own your data and track it somewhere outside of these platforms. A simple spreadsheet will do; I created a spreadsheet I updated every month where I tracked episode downloads/views as well as key performance metrics on our social channels.
That way, we'd have a simple presentation of all of our major trends without worrying about losing it if and when we switched platforms again. I wish I had done this from the beginning, but I'm very glad I started when I did.
Action Item: Track your data in a spreadsheet. Even if it's just a simple list with monthly downloads, you'll be glad that these metrics are somewhere that you own. I can't recommend this enough.
6. Build Your Tribe
Do you have a favorite show that you've watched for years and years? For me, that's shows like The Office and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
One of the best parts of watching shows like this is that there are so many little inside jokes, recurring bits, and small details that you only recognize if you've stuck with the show for a long time. It's like a little reward for being a "true" fan—you're in on the joke that not everybody will catch.
This is an example of being part of a tribe. Anyone can turn on the show and laugh at Michael Scott falling into a koi pond, but it takes a real fan to understand the little nuances of Dwight's relationship with Angela.
So, how do you build a tribe with your podcast?
There are a lot of ways you can do this, and each show is different. Things like recurring segments, inside jokes, personal stories, listener interactions, and even branding colors can all create unique, memorable, and specific experiences. It goes back to the question we asked earlier: "What are they getting from our show that they aren't getting anywhere else?"
Action Item: Start being intentional with building your tribe. It's the unique segment that you do once a week. It's the color scheme that stands out when people are scrolling social media. It's the listener interactions that make people feel special and part of the show. Build a relationship with the audience that's both wide and deep.
Turning These Lessons into Action
There are so many lessons that John and I learned with Dropping the Gloves, but these are the ones that have stuck out to me.
Like I mentioned already: if you're looking for tips on buying microphones, choosing a hosting platform, or generating revenue, those answers are easily found.
But if you apply these lessons, you'll find simple ways to improve your show, connect with your audience, and find competitor advances that many other podcasts won't be doing.
If you have questions about any of these tips or want to brainstorm ways to improve your show, I'd be happy to connect with you. Shoot me an email at contact@timwirzburger.com and let's talk!
And check this out if you'd like to learn more about my experience: A Look Back on My Time with Dropping the Gloves
